So I encourage you guys, especially you Laura to read Generous Justice by Timothy Keller and Leviticus. Great stuff.
Here is my summary:
1. Justice is about relationship;
2. Leviticus was about relationships-though I am still baffled about the whole thing of women having to be outside the camp during a certain time;
3. Social justice is not a side issue, an appendix for Christians. It is part of the centrality of our doctrine and relationship with Christ;
4. We can work with non-Cristian;
5. God is on the side of the poor-period;
6.0 Bono was right all along about the Jubilee economy;
7. This I like, it is a bit contentious...may be: Fasting is not about us, it is about the needy. So why do we have these church fasts for the local church for growth in numbers? I am not saying we should never do that but it seems that that is the only thing we do;
8. God is so interested about others. And not necessarily to "evangelise"them; and
9. All of life is holy,as it all belongs to him.
What do you mean by "justice is about relationship?"
ReplyDeleteOn a related note, a question I have been pondering recently:
Is it morally wrong to pay a full time employee less than you would consider yourself able to live on?
Just for example, say I consider it and decide that I could not live on less than R4000, even if I cut my life down to the bare minimum of what I consider possible. Is it then morally wrong for me to pay
someone less than that?
It is pretty much an abstract question for me, as I don't employ anyone. So I suppose I can afford to think about it without the danger of having to actually change anything...
I got thinking about it in part because I know a guy who earns about R300 a week, he works a full day, five days a week.
I don't know if that is legal or not, but I really think it is a moral matter, to pay someone that little. Even if it is legal.
Thoughts, anyone?
@ comf
ReplyDeletePlease do explain the Justice and Relationship connection. It sounds good but it's fuzzy to me.
@Laura.
What we pay people is definitely a moral issue and as Christian we should know, no doubt about it, we will answer to God for when we have robbed people of what is due to them. When we take advantage of the fact that people are poor and we pay them badly because we know that they have no options ...we have become the oppressor.
Let us err though on the side of saying that we must all live on the same par. You my friend are from a certain social background with a PHD. Your basic expenses are going to be vastly different to your housekeeper's and this is not a bad thing.
What we have to do when we employ people is consider 1. the amount of resources needed for the job offered. i.e. specialised skill? physical labour?...and the repercussions of that physical labour in days to come. time needed for the task?
If we cannot afford to pay beyond X amount, then we should higher the person for a smaller amount of time, paying them the best we can and then free them to get another job that will help to make ends meet. For example, they work for you in the mornings, but then they can get another job in the afternoon or atleast have the time available to do so. It is wicked,to take up a man's entire day, all his energy and strength and then send him home with not enough to make ends meet. At the very least , if we do not have the resources to pay, then we leave them with enough resources to spend themselves elsewhere in order to raise whatever else they leave our places without.
In cases where this is not possible, where perhaps, both the employer and the employees are working like mad for very little. The employer needs to make sure that her people prosper well when she prospers.
We must also remember that , in this scenario, you are an employer, not a parent, a gaurdian angel or saviour...just an employer, albeit a just one. It is important to know what your role is .
It is a relational reality. I act justly towards others because of their relationship with God and in relation to me. Furthermore, it is about being other-centric and not I-centric.
ReplyDeleteIn relation to me=In relatin to my context, what I have, what I am able to give etc.
ReplyDeleteLaura
I agree with Sizwe but I cannot help but think that the generosity must also be factored into this conversation. Do we give generously to others when it is comfortable and not costly? In other words should we not be generous with our employers? Giving more than what they "deserve". This of course will be expressed differently in different seasons but it will also be a monetary expression.
I find it interesting that our giving is often comfortable, and when I say that I do not have money I usually mean that I do not have enough for the both of us and thus your needs and not mine will be sacrificed. I do not mean that I literally do not have money.
Given our socio-economic reality that most emplyees are looking after their families should we not create a monetary environment that would allow them to do so in a dignified manner.
Being just is about having godly relationships
ReplyDeleteSiz, you make good points, and Comfort, I am with you on the "monetary environment that would allow them to do so in a dignified manner."
ReplyDeleteFor me, it comes down to
"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12 RSV)
If I would not work for R2000 a month, or I would not want my child to work for R2000 a month, then I should not be paying someone R2000 a month.
I'm not really considering it on a personal level, because I don't employ someone. I suppose this will be a question I have to grapple with personally if I am ever in the position to employ someone.
But the more I think about this, the more I think this is something Christians should stand up for, in the same way we stand up on issues like human trafficking and abortion and so forth. Maybe not with picketing and so forth, but by being clear and upfront that it can be a moral issue, how much people are paid.
On "Justice is about Godly relationships" - I think I will have to mull that over a bit, but I think thats a really good way to look at it!!
ReplyDeleteOh and a final thought:
ReplyDeleteI was at "ethnic diversity group" (!!) at church on Sunday, and the guy leading it made the most interesting point: "Mercy is easy, justice is difficult."
Interesting, hey! The context was that they church is doing a collection of stuff for indigent families - toiletries and stuff. And they had a huge response, which was great. But then he said that on the other hand, people are often a bit scared to talk about justice.
I think it is partly to do with what you were saying, Comfort: it is easy to buy a few groceries to donate at church, it costs us little. But actually thinking about ways the world is unjust, and how I could be complicit in it, and how I might have to change the way I live, us very uncomfortable.
I think that even non-christians may be just because of the doctrine/theology of commom grace. Heck, it seems that non-christians are more just than us. Now this may not be historically accurate thus the phrase "it seems".
ReplyDeleteMercy somehow seems as if it depends on some emotional momentum: we are moved by people's circumstances to be merciful. It dpends on emotionally charged external factors. Justice is a slog because it is about transformation which takes time. In other words mercy almost seems like temporary relief which should not be knocked down as far as assisting the poor and needy. Justice, however is a more permanent issue and requires lots of thinking even sometimes without emotions. Can we not be just to others regardless of how we feel? But can you be merciful without emotions? I may be guilty of drawing a strong distinction between the two. Of course we are emotional creatures and I cannot envisage an actions devoid of emotions. But the distinction may be helpful?
Laura I agree with you. The issue for me becomes then how do you straddle that line between being generous (we would like people to be generous because we want people to be generous to us) and yet being honourable? Everyone, because of the fall has a skewed self perception, we consider ourselves more than what we ought to. So the reality of the matter may be that that person's work does not justify his/her salary. So because of that we need to be honest and say: based on these facts I can only pay you X amount of money. And that is not being a bad person as Sizwe pointed out and you agreed. It is actually honouring that person by acting in line with reality. However, your view of the situation may be incongruent with your employers because as I pointed out we all have a I-centric worldview. So how do we as employers act in reality thus honouring people and their subjectivity (it is not honouring and definitely not helpful to pay people more than what they deliver as this may lead to a false sense of self and reality-for me this is one of the problems of a bad and corrupt implementation of BBBEE)and also being generous and just?
I definitely do not want to be paid peanuts based on certain realities: my educations experience etc. But can we then make this into a blanket rule? Maybe treating others as you would like them to treat you means: put yourself in their shoes, socio-economic realities, psychological realities towards themselves and you, the fact that they are broken image beares of God and etc and from that act mercifully, generously and just.
Generosity and Justice are not just monetary issues. Definitely ethical and personal issues though. It may be more just and generous to enroll your employee on a course to acquire more skills, it may be more just and generous to let them get a second job, it may be more just to pay them more than R2000 because you can afford it, because you use it as an incentive, because you know the circumstances of your employee etc.
The issue of justice is that it has to be wide enough to encompass personal/contextual issues and details and yet it has to be specific in terms of there is a standard. There are some actions that are not just, such as christmas boxes. They are merciful and charitable but not just. So not everything goes as being just.
Not sure if I have articulated my thoughts well on this matter.
Arg my browser didn't save the comment I typed out!! Arg!!! Okay, instead I will write a new post :)
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate the distinction that you I really appreciate the way you ladies draw a distinction between mercy and justice. I won't go into the points of it as you two have 'but what I think I appreciate is the challenge that I never allow to come into my mind when mercy is triggered.
ReplyDeleteSo usually how it works is that you see someone in a bad situation and emotions come up that call for you to stop and do something. The emotions are strong and they make you feel bad in a good way, but hearing you talk or rather reading your talk :), I am struck by how even this act often times has very little to do with the people that we help.
Confession: when I show mercy in the context that you mention above, more often than not, I feel bad, and I want to stop feeling bad as quickly as possible so I can get on with the rest of my day and so I give whatever it is I give and the guilt and all the other bad feelings subside and I move on... till the next time. I reckon my condition is quite common. It is not at all other-centered or God-centered. It's mostly about me, but hey what can we do? We take what goodness we find and what traces of Godliness we find and move forward with them and get transformed along the way.
But I feel like just by learning the two distinctions from you two that I have a new trigger.I feel as if you are giving me a language that can creates a reality.
The trigger for me is realising that where the "mercy" emotions arise, that is often a doorway to something wider and deeper; a justice issue, if you will; which I may choose to enter into or not. So that never again is it enough to toss a coin and move on , but there is a conscious moment of reflection... can I , will I ?
It seems so simple, like how could this be a light bulb moment? but it truly is. I have just never put them together in this particular context. I have never stopped to ask myself... "So you have been made to tarry by mercy... but now will you go further and engage to establish justice?"
As I read your comments my heart was pierced and this came to mind: Isaiah 58:
Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins. 2 For day after day they seek me out; they seem eager to know my ways, as if they were a nation that does what is right and has not forsaken the commands of its God. They ask me for just decisions and seem eager for God to come near them. 3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,'and you have not seen it? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you have not noticed?' Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please and exploit all your workers.
Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?
6Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.